>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight british actor bill nighy. >> i'm vigilant about kind of registering my good fortune each day. because the odds on it were long like anybody. and it's-- you foe i can as i say when i wake up in the morning i can wake up with a negative head and i have to decode you know just as i'm walking towards the kettle of. you know and i decode it into positivity. because you foe there's so much to be positive about. >> we conclude this evening with tim gunn. >> i don't feel famous. i as i said earlier i count my blessings an thank my lucky stars ef reday. but as chairman of the fashion department at parsons, it doesn't get any better than that in fashion education. i mean i was really at the top of the heap. an proud of it.

and was prepared to retire there. and then this phenomenon happened. and the overlapped with parsons for three and a half years. but it was a whole new threshold and provided this whole new dimension to my life. and i still have trouble wrapping my brain around it. >> rose: bill nighy and tim gunn when we fund. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. bill nighy is here, the british tabloids have dubbed him the thinking woman's crumpetment his acting career has spanned circle decades in television film and theater. he's currently on broadway alongside kerry mulligan and david hare skylight and stars in the second best exotic marigold hotel and here is the trailer for that hotel. >> the mar i gold hotel has been going properly for eight months now. people come and go but there's been a core of regulars from the beginning. and sony takes role call every morning. >> a most valuable precaution to make sure nobody has died in the night. >> mrs. evelyn greenslate. >> here. >> doug lance aynsley. >> i'm here. >> mrs. madge hardcattle. >> both here.

>> mrs. murrial donnelly. >> was's left. ladies and gentlemen this is the great guy kimbalance. >> lory lord v mercy. >> first time in india. >> just pretty much a dream until now. >> any other dream i could help you with? you shouldn't. i need that. >> i want to. >> sometimes it seems to me that the difference between what we want and what we fear is the-- to an eye lash. >> i'm so sorry were you talking to me. >> i don't know why i tell you anything. >> because i'm older and wiser. >> 19 days older. >> that's the entire life span of a wasp. >> the second-best exotic marigold hotel. >> rose: i'm pleased to have bill nighy back at this program. i what asking who wrote that

line. >> old parker he wrote both and he was brilliant. >> rose: let me ask about three relationships, okay first is michael gimbaugh what is your relationship with him? >> he michael gambaun used to creep up behind me in the canteen of the national theaterment and he would say something so profane that i can't possibly repeat it. but the-- it was encouraging. he would say something good. we have seen me in a play and he would have seen something good and that would get me through the next 18 months. he was the one i saw up ahead who i responded to. he was a modern acker. a contemporary actor. >> what does that mean? >> it means that he wasn't somehow-- he wasn't confined by any of the conventions of performing that were around at the time. he was kind of radical in a way. and apart from the fact that he is touched by genius i mean i know that is the

cliche of all cliches. but i feel it to be true. and he has thrilled me. and when i first saw skylight for instance which he created this role i kind of sword fenced all the way home. like you were a kid and you went to see a sword fencing movie or a gangster moviest and shoot and jumped over. it was exactly like that i was thrilled and i remember feeling obscurely proud that i did the same job as those peoplement and i wrote to michael. and i said i you know i have never written to anybody. i wrote to david bechham once. i wrote to michael and said i now consider you to be as i kind of joke i saids the leader of my profession and he wrote back and said something like pull yourself together. which we're also surrounded by profanity. >> but i'm deeply deeply i admire him but i'm also deeply fond of him. and i had recently did a movie with him. and i went not least because i knew that michael would make me laugh every morning and he did. and we sat in yorkshire on a

beech in the freezing cold and he made me laugh all day long. >> yes. >> didn't he also tell david hare that you ought to get you for the role? >> i have i didn't know that at the time but yes, i believe that, i think somebody said-- . >> rose: he said there is a young guy -- >> you know he's been instrumental in my career and he's been very very encouragingment and he's one of the few people that really get your attention if they say something encouraging to you. you know and i do believe he was instrumental in getting me this role the first time around. although i had worked with david before. so he was not unaware of me. >> my next person is david hare. what is it about the two of you? >> it's the great food fortune of my career is my association with david hare which started when i was po i think and i did a television film with him. when i read the first thing that i ever read by david hare it kind of rang in me in a way that i think with great writing or great art

it often does. which it was almost as if it were familiar to me. it was as if if you had given me time i would have got around to saying those things. it chimed in terms of its-- of it's kind of attitude to the world where things that i was already thinking. but will elegance and the beauty and the whit he writes the best swroks in town. was something that was very very kind of familiar to me. and it was very and it was the first time i had read a contemporary script where it really blew me away. and david counted recently and i think it's ten we've done ten things together now. and i treasure that. >> the theater film and television. >> yeah, yeah. >> i did i did the dreams of leaving on the television i then went to the national theater and did a play called the map of the world. i came here to new york many years later when we first met. i have done skylight twice. and i have done four television film with him.

and i also did with anthony hopkins, we put on a big fat comedy, the first comedy ever produced at the national theater in the olivier stage or rather the first contemporary comedy called pravda which was a massive hit in the 1980s. >> and third relationship is your relationship with bill nighy. -- yeah, i don't know how that is going. we don't get on terribly well. i mean he doesn't think a great deal of me apparently. >> rose: oh really. >> especially in the morning before i put the kettle of on. he has a very low opinion of me. >> rose: but sometimes i think there are two of you. one is sort of the person who is a rascal who loves the-- of life and then the other side is this person without really does like to be quiet. and likes to be sort of at home. and who likes to be -- >> yeah.

that is-- well the latter part of all of that is true. i do find it increasingly i kind of find it thrilling to be on my own to be honest. >> i treasure time alone. >> me too. well maybe it's as simple as the fact that you have a very obviously populated professional life as do i. i work every day i go to work. i go to work with 50 people 100 people. and therefore those times would obviously be treasureable. there's something about it that i guess also i can control the environment is probably that simple as well. but i love to-- i don't necessarily have to be at home. >> do you know what i mean. i like to walk. i love to walk around. >> but in doing things that you want to do. whether it is just things that you want to take time to do. >> yeah. >> whether it's to see something read something. >> yeah. >> play something. >> yeah. >> all of that. >> yeah, absolutely. it's become more and more precious to me. i love it. i relish it and i'm very

pleased that i'm able to relish it. i feel like maybe it's just a function of being younger. you miss stuff because of whatever the concerns of the time. but now i make a point. maybe you just look at the clock and you say hey come on. >> do you appreciate all that you have now because it didn't come early early? >> i-- i think so yes. i mean i can't i have nothing to compare it to. but i am pretty sure that that is the case. >> rose: i think it's true too. >> i am-- there is you know i'm very vigilant about kind of registering my good fortune each day. >> because the odds on it were long like anybody. and it is-- and you know i can as i say before i-- when i wake up in the morning i can wake up with a negative head and i have to decode just as i'm walking towards the kettle of. you know and i decode it into positivity. because you know and there's so much to be positive about. >> let's talk about the movie first. >> okay. >> it was so successful and

everybody was surprised how successful. it was an obvious choice for somebody to say we did something write let's try it again. >> yes. >> well it didn't look like box office dynamite. >> no. >> i thought we would make a good film. >> you couldn't miss with the cast. >> no quite. >> once judi dench became involved. i have worked with judi dench and it is one of the great joys of pie life. and if i had to go to work every day and it was with judi i would be perfectly happy. an when she became involved it became a very easy decision am but the wol cast are tremendous. and i've known them all most of my life. i have been pried to penelope wilton maybe twice before, i have been her doctor jz you mean in the movies. >> in the movies yes. i have had letter sex with her on bbc letter. >> rose: what is letter sex. >> it was a true story of a bo hemmian count who wrote sexy letters to an english lady and asked for all kinds of things to be sent over.

and it was hilarious. it was mostly penelope and i sitting across the table rrz was there any confirmation of this. >> no none whatsoever. >> rose: it was all in the mail. but mostly penelope and i trying not to look at each other so we wouldn't laugh because it was kind of raisey and funny. i have known celia since she was 16 we were at drama school together. i have known tom wilkinson he reminded me for about 25 years. and i have been judi's love interest three or four times. so it was like it was a bit like the traveling supper club of great britain. people you could sell tickets just for you know the stories around the dinner table. >> rose: and richard gere joins the cast. >> which was a great coup for the second movie. and he entered the language very easily. and nicely. and it was very and he's a big india ham so he knew the country and was very happy to be there. i was also interested because i would be playing music, i would play john lee hooker, oh john what a great guy. what, you know john lee

hooker. yeah, i hung out with john a lot. and he goes okay. so it was great. so i used to pump him for story because miles davis what a cool cat. you know miles davis you know. >> rose: would you ever do you ever consider being a musician? >> no. i tried to be in a band when i was you know 20. we didn't get out of the garage. >> rose: you were a garage band that didn't leave the garage. >> yeah. we never left the garage. but and i couldn't play anything. i have bad hands which is unfortunate that i didn't learn because my hands got bad and therefore i would be very very unhappy now. >> rose: this movie it what is it makes it successful? is it just the actors that somehow they're such a good feeling about them? >> well it's possible that that is an element. i think al parker who wrote the scripts for both movies is a brilliant man. and i think a lot of it should be handed to him. and john madden is a fantastic filling maker.

and they didn't want to make a second one just for the sake of making one. >> how did they make it different sm. >> they extrapolated brilliantly from the first one. and to give everybody a good story once again and to resolve everything in the way they have is brilliant. to make it funny and romantic. but i don't really know why it would be so successful. obviously there is the fact that it offers some alternative to the usual the traditional way of looking at old age in movies which is you just go dot dot dot and apparently you fade. so there is sort of exciting for a certain part of the audience. >> rose: there is adventure for these people at their age. >> yeah exactly. >> rose: roll tape this is where you and your daughter and your wife arrive in india. here it is. >> hello dad. >> darling. >> well. oh. >> hello. >> darling,. >> hello evelyn. it was all so delightfully

last minute. >> iest yes a bit of warning would be nice. >> you didn't get my text. >> i hate that machine. >> laura isive going a speech at an international conference. >> about the exponential growth of internet start-ups and the consequent affects on-- and when she mentioned that she would be offered two return flights first class, of course i couldn't resist the chance to come out and visit the old crumbling ruins and see how the hotel was doing as well. >> rose: you once said to me playing off great actors makes you up your game. >> i believe that to be true and if you work with those kinds of factors it does, without even consciously in retrospect that is how i experience it that they have enabled you to raise your game. >> what is raising your game mean? to us-- focus? >> all those things are included but i guess it's just that you are able to operate at a level of it's

difficult here insight or intelligence or wit that mightment be available to are ou the material of a lesser quality or if the people working opposite were-- . >> rose: you call it the best within you in every way. >> yes. >> they just open you up because they deliver something which is sophisticated. or just simple or true. and that that unlocks something. and it becomes a proper exchange. >> rose: you once said to me that the character you play there is a man who is long-suffering but inherently drawn to act descently. >> yeah. and that's what makes it interesting for me. it's sort of radical. i like that kind of heroism. the heroism of so-called i don't even want to say ode people because i don't like that. but you know the people who have decent from the point of view of sort of headlines unremarkable but decent lives who do who are drawn to the idea of doing the

next right thing. but i like the idea of playing someone who is inherently decent. and there's no kind of-- there's no ambiguity about that with douglas he's pretty straightforward. >> the text is how much of what you do on the stage in a film? >> it's off the top of my head 9-- 90%. >> rose: really? >> yeah without that i don't think you can begin. and i'm interested in the writing. and i'm interested in how it's-- and you know how it's expressed. and that more probably than anything else. >> rose: because directors say they casting 175% of what they do. >> yeah i can believe it yeah. >> rose: because somehow they cast somebody that they think you know in conjunction with the writer will give the right sort of merger. >> yeah. >> between words and -- >> yeah. i think it must be-- that must be the most difficult part of the job really is getting that right. getting that straight. >> rose: are you a man of ambition?

>> i have to work out here which is the-- which is the pr part of my brain. or not the pr part of my brain. to answer honestly i suppose yeah. >> rose: that's all i'm interested in. >> i know and i'm not interested in anything else either. but just trying to separate you know. i think you know i think probably yeah you know in my own way i am. >> rose: is it what you do and doing it well? >> there's that. >> rose: is what appeals to your psyche. >> i'm not you know i'm not-- i'm not bent on world domination. do you know what i mean? >> rose: you're not an imperialist. >> i'm not an imperialist in that way. though honestly. even when i was younger my expectations were incredibly low actually. >> rose: when did it change? >> i don't know that it did change. it's just that things got good, you know, things were good for a long time anyway but you know things got better in terms of you know-- .

>> rose: but i mean i think ambition is a good thing first of all. >> yeah. >> rose: i think you take acting really seriously. you take the profession seriously. you know and in the sense that you really do and this is a definition of ambition want to excel at doing the thing. >> yeah. that's for sure. >> rose: not being the thing. >> yeah that's for real. i got interested in acting and i have remained fascinated by it. and i am, i am ambitious to do it as well as i possibly can. >> rose: and find out how good you can be. >> exactly. >> that's the great test isn't it. >> yeah and i'm keen for that. and i'm still interested in that. >> rose: some actors tell me that they-- they readily accept a part if it scares them. >> yeah. >> rose: . >> well, yeah, when i was younger i used to turn them down if they were scary turn them down am and i would invent some fancy reason for turning them down. but in fact, it was just fun. and then i got real. and i started to take jobs which apparently i had

invented as apparently out of my range. and then and so things started to get-- . >> rose: what is an example of that. >> skylight was a pretty good example. i turned it down about three times with my agent because i had seen michael gambaun play it which was one of the greatest things i had ever seen like i saidment traditionally what used to happen is i would turn it down with my agent and david hare would call me personally and i would hear the sound of his voice and say okay okay okay i'm coming. with do i-- . >> rose: see i thought you were going to say something like if david hare called me i wouldn't take the call because i know. >> no, i take the call. and he would say what was all that. i don't know, i'm coming where do you want me when do i have to be there. and that happened with skylightment because i thought, you got to be kidding, in those days. >> rose: how how would you do it again if you have already done it. >> i did it again because this is a-- this is a question as to which i don't absolutely know the answer. but i will speculate. one is that i wanted to do a play and there aren't many

plays that i want to do. it's a great role. i wanted to it originally in new york. i figured that justified it because i had oblt ever done it in london am then it turned out people couldn't do that. so i did it in london which was ufl wonderful. i loved the play with all my heart. i think it's a brilliant thing in the world. it didn't been produced majorly for a long time. david had kind of protected it. and you know i love it. so i figured. >> rose: what do you love about it? >> i lover the fact that it's funny, in a way that i find heartbreaking. it's-- i love the way that the broader issues are perfectly and invisibly integrated into the story of two people trying to come to terms with one another on a personal level. i love the fact that it's like a-- it's built like a-- it's like a bomb. it's like a clock.

it's beautifully put together so that it unlocks something in the audience so they go away hopefully full of hope. and about personal relations and indeed about things more universal. i think it's one of the rare occasions where those two things are beautifully integrated as i said. >> rose: you didn't want to do it because of michael gambon. do you see it differently f i watched a performance by him, a performance by you will i see -- >> well yeah it would be different, i guess yeah. it is a long time ago. so i can't really remember. and i can't remember my first performance of it either. so i can-- i have fond memories of the people involved and a lot of the off stage stuff but i can't actually recall much about the performance. i'm not repricing anything. it's not like what i imagine opera is like where you have it in your head and you just turn up and deliver. it's a brand-new production. and steven dowdry who say brilliant and wonderful man and a sen

station-- sensational director has really delivered something beautiful. and bob joely was set everyone will tell you, one of the most beautiful sets i have ever seen in my life. it is a beautiful package. >> rose: how could you say no. >> well quite everything about it was attractive and scott ruden and robert forx pie favorite producers. paul on the sound is a genius natasha klein who lit it it's just bathed in intelligent light as i like to quit. it's just everything about it is just beautiful. >> rose: you say to her bathe me in intelligent light. >> i didn't actually ask for it but that is what she did. and kerry mulligan. as soon as query mulligan became involved it's for real. >> case closed. >> case closed. she's completely and utterly brilliant and i love her with all my heart. just to get it out quick. get it out there so everybody is clear. she's just an assassin. >> i think so. >> roll tape take a look at this. >> you used to tell me that you had this great-- i remember you priding yourself in what you called

your man management skills. and yet you still treat people as if they were no better than objects. >> -- the driver that's what he does. you know full well that drivers didn't drive they spend waiting. >> it's what they expect. he is personally happy. he is bloody well paid. he's sitting in a spacious limousine listening to kiss 100 and reading what is call politely called a men's interest magazine. >> have you seen the weather, have you seen the snow about to company down. >> don't give all that. frank is better time which is thing in a warm mercedes than he would be in this-- you call-- this is it. this is a problem. this ridiculous self-riotous- ness. you always had it and i knew. it's only going to get worse once you decide that you wanted to teach. >> that has nothing to do with my teaching.

it hasn't to do with the work that i do. it's a way of respecting people. >> frank isn't people. >> frank isn't people. frank is a man who is doing a jobment you are always-- your own bloody-- stupid gestures nothing to do with what people might want. they want to be treated respected for the job they are paid for. not looked down on as if they were chronically disabled. as if they somehow needed help. yes, this was the whole trouble with business and you. you looked down always on the way we did things. on the way things were done. you could never accept the nature of business. finally that's why you had to leave. >> well i must say. >> i mean -- >> i never knew that was the reason. >> all right i'm sorry. >> i never knew that was why i had to leave. >> i put it badly. >> badly? you did. i thought i left because your wife discovered i had been sleeping with you for over six years. >> i mean well yes that as well. that played a part in it. >> rose: you want to shoot

me now. >> i want to shoot you now yeah. bizarre. absolutely bizarre. i looked away when it was first on thinking it was me. >> rose: the first moment you looked away because you didn't realize. when you thought it was michael okay i will watch that then you said what,. >> i thought he was-- he is famous for korptsing. meaning laughing when are you not supposed to laugh. >> rose: i see. >> i guess it means you're dead. >> rose: but you see two of you right there then when you came back on you -- >> yeah you don't want to watch yourself what is it? >>. >> i don't like to risk it. it's just what is that word risk assessment what is that phrase. i just feel that why risk it. it's like i don't watch the movies just in case. >> rose: never watch the movies if you are in. >> not if i can help it. >> rose: you are on a plane are you not going to watch that movie. >> no i never watch movies on planes anyway because i read on planes. i gave up movies on planes. but i don't watch myself no if i can possibly help it.

because i just think why risk it. i mean-- . >> rose: why risk it? >> well i don't particularly like the sight of me and that is not because-- now, even when i was less complicated to look at when i was younger i didn't fancy it much. but now i don't-- it's not that some of. it's just that you see all the little compromise. i hear all the compromises things i didn't quite pull off. it's-- i'm not the audience for it. so why, and then i have to recover from it and go back to work so it's best if i'm left in the dark. >> rose: you have heard this before but i'm going to repeat it. this is what michael gambon said the great gambon. >> i'm not jealous of anything. the only thing i'm jealous of is bill nighy. >> i kind of sounded like him for a moment didn't i. >> stu did. it was very goods. >> there you go. what do you know. i spent decades thinking i just want to be michael gambon. >> rose: and he's jealous of youness well, i don't know what that is about.

>> rose: are you comfortable with that? >> i'm very comfortable that michael should mention my name frankly. and i'm comfortable with whatever he wants to say. >> rose: here is what ben brantly said, new york times theater critic. >> when acting is this focus your own vision seems to improv miraculously. it's as if you have been allowed omniscient access to thoughts behind the words and actions of the former loveer portrayed by mismulligan and mr. nyey. and the emotion behind the thoughts and the history behind the emotions may even wind up thinking that you know these characters better than they know themselves which is fair or better than the stars playing them which is not. >> i think that was very flattering, don't you? >> deeply flattering. >> rose: deeply flattering. are you comfortable at long last, sir this is almost like on joseph welch you know, in the army mcqarty hearing. are you comfortable at long last, sir, with the fact that people love you? love you. >> no, you can see i'm

squirming in the chair here. >> it's gens my upbringing. >> is it really if. >> no, i think it's just-- no listen i crave it the same as everybody else but i guess it's some sort of superstition or it just goes against the one man cult that i have invented in my head you know which is devoted to self-denigration in case i preempt other people's disdain or something like that. you can tell i'm struggling. but i love to hear it, thank you very much. >> rose: now that comes to you who has never played shakespeare. >> well not really. >> not really. >> meaning-- well i did play once i played lucinzio in taming of the shrew and played edgar in king lear with anthony hopkins. >> rose: so you have played twice. >> so i have played twice. >> and i only did the second one because it was david. >> so david asked you you said yes. >> i just said yes. i again i think i turned it down and he phoned me personally. >> and you said okay. >> i said yeah wa dow want.

>> he said he said something like it's me. i said okay okay. >> it's me. >> you can't say no to me. >> he meant trust me. i said okay i trust youment and he was right. >> i mean what does it mean to trust a director or a writer? >> well. >> to know they will not-- they will take care of you. >> it's a big deal and it takes time i thinkment i'm very forth that the that i work with the same people over and over again. that is one of the big things i'm grateful for because you know even i have to accept that they're probably going to take care of me. >> okay. here's another clip from skylight and then i want to you tell me about your character. this is take a look. >> okay. >> well, you take a look. >> okay, i'll take a look exactly. >> i'm just going to listen. >> this is it i realize then i have to go one step further. i have to really give myself to the children. i have to really let them know who i am. s this's when they respect you.

now no problems with this none. and i have to say my grades are amazing. i took on the job and i bloody well did it. >> i see it sounds like a -- challenge. >> i have seen the way things are now in this country. i think the 30 years i loved in a dream. i don't mean that unkindly. everything you gave me i treasured. but the fact is you go out now. you open your eyes and you see this country as it really is. >> . >> rose: so what is the magic between these two? >> the magic is they love each other quite simply they love each other. and they are and i think they, you know, in the way -- >> there is an age difference a political difference. >> yup, but it doesn't seem to count for much. >> it wouldn't bother me at all either of those things. >> no. >> would you. >> nope, doesn't bother me

at all. love hits wherever love hits. and it hits in the most unlikely places. and i don't think this is the most unlikely place. they had six years of very happy times which happen to coincide with his marriage. >> you know. >> just so happened. >> he was married. so you know but it's survived that. and it survived the intervening years. but you get to see over the evening how that works out. >> rose: how would you characterize her performance. >> masterful. >> rose: masterful. >> absolutely masterful yeah. she's the more i work with her and coming back. >> rose: you many in this every night after night. >> yeah. in this play which is my only experience of working with her. and then having come back after a six-month break and having a renewed view of it she is absolutely extraordinary and exemplary. and has a much harder

evening than i do. she has to start the play and end the play. she has to bank it up a lot of the time. she has to and she is she is lethal. she is her-- she is forever truthful that she operates with a total absence of carryism or whatever you might want to call it-- carryism, any kind of undesirable sentimentality. she is pristine. >> basically david hare said who could succeed bill nighy. answer. bill nighy. >> well that's very good. >> enough. tell me who tomorrow sergeant is? tom sergeant is what you call a self-made man. and he's built up a very succession-- successful restaurant empire. he also owns hotels. he is extraordinarily successful. he made an enormous amount

of money. he was married to a woman he saw modelling in a magazine for many years. they had a family. he met and fell in love with the kerry mulligan character his wife then died. he he is someone who has not survived his success totally intact. and his success has been core rosive in the way that it sometimes is with people who have-- who have been very lucky. he has made the mistake of managing that it's something he did. that it's something that it's more than luck. that it's something, it confirms for him something which is not all together true which is that he is in some way unique and therefore is at liberty to pontificate in a way that is not all together attractive. >> rose: but it's not all luck that he has done. >> no, he has worked hard. but it's also, you know there is always that. >> there is always chance and opportunity and always timing. >> yeah yeah.

and es-- but he's not you know he's not a terrible man. it's a so fises kated play in as much as that they both talk sort of rationally at times and very sensibly at times. and the audience it's like watching a tennis match and the audience do swingish i am told quite vigorously between the two characters. and she will say something,nd everyone goes yeah and he does the same thing. >> in between did you change anything about the way you saw him and portrayed him? >> well that's difficult to monitor. because i think i probably have yeah. i think i have a little more i think i hope a little more compassion. i don't have to defend my character or anything of that kind. i'm just happy to be present the part. but i think i probably have opened him up a touch to make him less-- hopefully more sophisticated as a character and less sort of i mean he's not the villain of the piece. and you know i'm not out

to-- out to get him. >> did you like page eight. >> yeah. >> the whole turk and caicos thing too, did you like that? >> i adored it. it was my ideal situation. i couldn't believe it, when david hare rang me and said i think he said he got 40 pages of the screenplay which was-- would have involved me but he couldn't work out what to do on page 41. and i was like what are you saying? he said well, it will probably never exist. should we have breakfast. i said you can't call me and tell me that there is-- you know and that he wanted to direct it. the great thing was that he wanted to direct it. if he hadn't directed anything for a long time and certainly not on camera. and my fondest memories are being directed by david as a young man. and being in rehearsal rooms with him. and the fact that he was going to direct a film for television was the ideal situation. >> rose: are you in-- intrigued about stories of intelligence and the world of intrigue? >> what i do lately after the show is i go home and i read ben mcintyre's book

about kim philbe which i'm deep into. i eat that stuff up. >> rose: me too. >> i'm crazy about it. i have read all of them. >> rose: kirm has touched so many i mean the stories about him and what he might have done and his relationship this book being a good eck ample they keep unfolding. >> yeah. he was obviously the most extraordinary figure. and i can't it's like there is no-- ira read every book about-- bob dylan. bob dylan probably doesn't want me to read these books but i can't help myself. there may be one thing that i don't knowment and you know what i mean. how many times do i need to be told this stuff. i know everything. >> rose: you might find a-- curl though something might explain everything. >> yeah. >> rose: how long will you be in this play. >> until june 21st. >> rose: then what do you do sm. >> and then i will go maybe i'm going to go to butan now that you told me. >> rose: exactly. you definitely ought to.

>> i think i'm going to go to butan. >> rose: i think you should. >> you were telling me about it before the show why wouldn't i go to butan. >> rose: it's my thing, my new favorite country. >> i'm going. i've made the decision while you were talking earlier some i'm being to go to butan. >> rose: that is why i like you so much. you separate on instinct. >> i think why wouldn't i. as you say you look at the clock and you think go to putan. >> that is what i said so i shall go to butan and then i will go back to work. i get a short break. >> rose: do you have a next film or play. >> i have a film which is directed by lona sherrfigure who directed as it happens directed kerry mulligan in an education. >> rose: right. >> it's called their finest hour and a half. it's been propaganda films being made in the 1940s during the second world war in england. and it's a very good script. a beautiful love story not involving me. but i get to play an actor who, withouted in those films. and it's very nice part. and i'm looking forward to

it. i shouldn't tell you this because we haven't done the deal yet. >> rose: put more money in it. >> charlie says i should get more money. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> my pleasure. >> rose: it's great to see you. >> really good to see you. >> rose: i can't wait to see the play and see the film as well. >> thank you. >> rose: bill nighy. back in a moment. stay with us. tim gunn is here. he has spent more than three decades as a fashion educator. he began teaching in 1978 at the corcoran college of art and design where he studied sculpture. he was also a faculty member associate dean and chairman of the department of fashion design at parsons until 2007 he is best known as the co-host and mentor to protect hundred runnaway the lifetime reality television program. he is gentle but firm approach and significant make his catch phrase helped him emerge as a popular figure. he shares his thoughts on teaching and mentorship in this new book called tim

gunn the nationally professor. i am pleased to have-- the natty professor. please to have him her. >> thank you so much. it is a profound honor for me. >> rose: tell me what project runway did for you? >> well actually it's not only what it did for me it's what it did for the fashion industry. it demystified it. it took this veil of mystery and intrigue and ripped it off and said look at this industry. if you want to be a designer it's gritty it's daunting it's dirty and not very glamorous looking. and for me to tell you when i first became involved with the show i was-- i was a consultant. i was never supposed to be on camera. and it all happened at the very last minute. and i think that the producers --. >> rose: what happened? >> well i believe the producers were afraid that the designer was receive their marching ors from heidi klum our fabulous host. they would go into the workroom to create their work, an no one would talk. so by sending me in to probe and to query they would be

assured of some dialogue, at least. >> rose: because you would know something different. >> well i would be doing what i did in my classrooms for those almost 30 years. >> rose: which is raise questions, which is -- >> which is to probe query. >> rose: raise dialogue. >> and to critique. to give them feedback about their work. so i never dreamed there would be a season two. i thought-- . >> rose: did you feel comfortable instantly? >> no not even remotely. i was most nervous when i was standing with heidi. my knees would shake. in the workroom itself i was fairly comfortable because i was in my own domain including being in a room in which i actually taught at parsons. and i was very aware of the camera placement. and i thought it is obvious to me that no one will need to hear me or see my face as long as they have the designers responding to my questions. i'm just going go away. >> rose: then the designer on what they are talking about. >> exactly. >> rose: because you can always show pictures of fashion.

>> precisely. >> rose: what do you like about fashion? >> i like the constant changes. i like the evolution. i like the fact that it happens in a context that's cultural, societal historic economic and even political. >> rose: it is all that. >> it is all that. i'm always saying that there is a very real difference between fashion and clothes. we need clothes. and when i talk about clothes i cite the l.l. bean catalog. those items have been the same for heons and we're grateful for them. >> rose: that's like saying architecture is only about shelter. >> exactly right then we just need a cave. >> rose: exactly. >> but we like fashion because it is constantly changingment and we like to feel that we're part of this barometric gauge. >> rose: and of the moment. >> absolutely am i'm always talking about symbiotic the clothes we wear send a message about how the world perceives us. and that is a very tall ord. >> rose: i'm also interesting in mentoring tell me about that. because i think that all of us owe mentoring to someone

that can benefit from it. >> i am total agreement. and i had mentors in my life. and they continue to be important to me. it was interesting for me because i had spent so many years as a teacher and transitioning from teacher to mentor was quite frankly difficult. as a teacher that classroom is my domain. i'm in charge of it. i can do whatever i want to do. i can tell people what to do. as a mentor you are-- you're an advisor. well i will break it down to what i do with teach in the book. i take teach an turn it into an acronym truth telling empathy asking cheerleading and hoping for the best. and if anything i love the role of mentor more than i love the role of teacher. i find it to be more challenging and therefore more rewarding.

>> rose: is part of it because it's often one-to-one? >> yes most definitely most definitely yes. though teaching can be very intimate as well. but mentoring is so specific to that individual. >> rose: an about his life or her life. >> exactly. and the context in which the work is being made. >> rose: and the connection between the two between the mentor and the protege. have you had mentors? >> oh yes, one of ones i'm very happy to say and lucky to say. >> rose: you have never wanted to be a designer? >> well i am by education an artist. and i created work. interestingly, up until-- . >> rose: what kind of stuff did you do on tv? >> oh do i want to do that? never in a million years. i am in awe of those designers. i am complete and total awee. and charlry, -- charlie, i want you to know that they execute that work in ten hours, they conceive they

shop they drape draft they cut sew. they fit the model. they style the model it happens in ten hours am i am constant awe. >> rose: see that's exactly. i asked robert altman who was a great director. >> indeed. >> rose: and he said to me and part of the reason he was a good director he said i could never be an actor. i have such admiration for what it is they do. >> yes. >> rose: i would never want to do it. i would never think i could do it. but i -- and i amed to allly in awe of it. >> he know. >> rose: an therefore because i respect what they have to do and because it is within me i'm a better director, i'm a better -- >> i agree with altman i totally agree. i have to say also, to the being a fashion designer i'm never projecting myself into the project runway designers' work and asking what would i do. well first of all what i would do is totally irrelevant. but in this case it's moot. because i wouldn't be doing

anything. >> rose: well, is there anything are you not doing that you would like to do? >> oh charlie, i have to tell you, there isn't a single day when i don't talk about how lucky i am. and i believe that to wish for anything else would be such hubris i would be struck by lightning. >> rose: somehow i found the rainbow. >> oh most definitely. i mean most definitely. >> rose: because the television has given you something that just teaching would not have done? >> well i have to say. let's pretend-- . >> rose: it has to do with fame. >> well, it's something that still i mean i don't feel famous. i never assume anybody knows who i am. as i said earlier i count my blessings and thank my lucky stars every day. but as chairman of the fashion department at parsons it doesn't get any better than that in fashion

education. i mean i was really at the top of the heap. and proud of it. and was prepared to retire there. and then this phenomenon happened. and it overlapped with parsons for three three and a half years. but it was a whole new threshold. and provided this whole new dimension to my life. and i still have trouble wrapping my brain around it. when i'm doing red carpet reportage at the oscars, for instance and standing next to helen herin or meryl streep, i have an out of body experience. i think i can't believe i'm standing here with these people. >> but i wonder the following. was it always within you and you are just one of the lucky ones who somebody unleashed it that whatever it is that makes you good you had. because i think a lot of people, a lot of talent never get a chance to show it. i don't think that every circumstances talent out. there are a lot of people

you will have comedians i did a six minute speech on larry david. and he talked about some of the people that are really, really good and nobody knows their name. >> there are people in fashion like that as well there are lots of them. i just have to say when i talk about counting my blessings its fact that i ask be on tferntions and ju be me, how fantastic is that. i don't have to get into character. i don't have to think well what would that mentor on project runway say. >> what is it you bring your curiosity. >> definitely curiosity. i believe curiosity is critical for the enjoyment and the betterment of one of's life. otherwise what makes us get up in the morning. but also there is an awe then 'tisity to me that i'm perfectly willing to acknowledge. and i am-- i am so eager to help our designers as i was my students. and i know that certain methods of communication don't work and through trial

and error, and a good deal of experience i have learned what works better if not best. >> rose: let's talk about this. because i'm interested in this kind of stuff. you basically instill the philosophy of teaching into five elements using the acronym teach which is truth telling, empathy asking questions, cheerleading and hoping for the best. tell me about truth telling. >> well truth telling is about what i see and in the context of also asking and empathy of understanding where you are coming from. so the truth telling is for me a matter of what can you do something aboutor it may be truth telling may also be this is fabulous but that's generally not the case. things are good and things can be improved. but with truth telling for me i draw a very pronounced line between what can be fixed and what can't be. and if it can't be fixed, i

don't talk about it. it's absolutely no use to anyone. >> how about empathy. >> empathy is rehearsing in my head what i want to say to an individual and asking myself how would i respond to those words and that tone. and it may require some rethinking some recalibration. and it's very helpful. how would i respond? >> asking questions we talked about, cheerleading. >> that's accentuateing the positive. and believing. >> and giving encouragement. >> yes, and it's important. i make the assumption and i believe i'm correct in this assumption that in the circumstances in which i have been so blessed to be in highly selective design school a hit reality show that is very selective in terms of who the designers are who are on it i make the assumption that these are motivated people with a high aptitude and a desire

to ascend to be better. so that is the point of depar ture that i use in dealing with them. >> rose: and of all the people that have been on project runway how many have risen to have significant achievement? >> well, it depends how you define significant it. >> rose: how about you define it? >> for me it's a matter of what are the goals and the ambitions of the individual. and how are they fulfilling those. i will cite our season two winner, enclosey she didn't want to leave houston. she is one of six sisters. they're all very close. she wanted to expand her business. which she has incrementally. and she has a wonderful family of her own now and she's very very happy. she has no desire to be in new york or los angeles two cities where you expected you will end up as a fashion designer. and we have christian syriano from season five who

has done phenomenally well. i'm thinking of emmitt mccarthy from season three and what he has achieved. you know charlie also think about the economic downturn and the retail calamity that corresponding to a number of those seasons. i'm just happy to have designers still working at all. it is a tough industry. >> rose: talk a bit about personal life. now you the idea of coming to terms with sexuality where do you put that in terms of becoming tim. >> well our sexuality is as inextricable from us as our gender in my view. and it's such an important part of who we are. and it's something that i turn my back on for quite a long time. and i would say to myself, i don't know who i am sexually. but i know who i'm not. >> right. >> rose: and even that was very very helpful. and i am proud to be a gay

man. and i will repeat it it's inextricable from who i am. and it is something i would never dream of changing. whenever anyone asks but i will say this. i had a very troublesome adolescence in particular. >> rose: you tried to commit suicide. >> i did. i was hospitalized for quite a long time. and there was a young man in that hospital with me who was there because he was gay. now this is going back to the late '60s. and it was thought a at that time this is something you should fix. and i said to myself good heavens. i know what i am not but i don't know who i am sexually. i can't possibly even dream of wanting to be like this other young man. because look how toremented he is. and look what he is going through. and trying to change all of this. and thankfully we're in a different place now. and i'm ever grateful for it.

>> rose: i was-- i think the tim cook's statements have been eloquent and remarkable. >> i agree. >> rose: in terms of what he said. >> i agree. >> rose: when he came forward as he did. it was just and all of us would hope that we live in a society where normal people will feel and do feel the same way you did and the way tim did. >> i hope so. >> rose: yeah. are we making that much progress, hopefully? >> i hope so. i am, of course very pleased about the number of states acknowledging gay marriage. and same-sex marriage yes. at the same time i know through the human rights campaign with which i've worked closely, there are still 36 states in this nation are you can be fired for being gay. now i done believe people act on it very often if at all. but those laws need to be

amended. >> rose: absolutely. >> so there is still a lot of work to do. >> rose: the book is called tim gunn the natty professor, master class on mentoring, motivating and making it work. what you can do to shape your own life. thank you. >> thank you charlie. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us on-line at pbs.org and charlie rose.com captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> announcer: greedy wall street banks and uncle sam are out to grab your hard-earned retirement savings. >> follow my golden rule: don't lose that money. >> announcer: ed slott america's ira expert, shows you how to steer clear of the bumps, potholes, and roadblocks in your retirement and lead you to a safe, secure, and tax-free retirement. >> how about no taxes ever in retirement? how does that sound? yeah! (laughs) >> announcer: ed wants you to move in only one direction... >> from forever tax to... >> all: never tax. >> announcer: please join us for "ed slott's retirement roadmap." (applause) >> thank you. thank you.